The case for a small displacement V-12 street car.

"Grindintosecond" (Grindintosecond)
02/09/2016 at 18:07 • Filed to: None

I’ve talked about this before. And then Ferrari puts a turbo on a v-6 and everyone raves about it. Ferrari needs something that evokes their history and reminds everyone why their cars have spirit and excitement above and beyond anyone else’s models. This is a simple solution. A present-day Kawasaki zx-14 engine redlines at 11,000 rpm. A 3.5 liter Ferrari race engine from 1989 redlined at 12,500. There is not a single reason a streetable smaller v-12 can’t hit the streets with a redline of 11k with reliability of a GXR or ZX superbike- Today!

Just listen to the video above. Imagine, even with with mufflers and shrouded intake, how incredible a 3.5 liter, 12 cylinder would sound in a two seat car screaming along at lofty and obscene revs beyond any car out there is capable of. Oh, let’s say a miata or BRZ size with a longer nose to contain. Something that would bring back a little of what Ferrari was built on? It’s time. But what do I know. I’m just someone without money and by that rationale, obviously unfit to have ideas....even if it would have an easy 475-500 street friendly and clean hp.

They have V-12's yes. Guess what? Theyre huge and massively powerful, but I will argue that they are nothing what Ferrari was built on. An engine with a car for free. Driver experience. Nope. Leather plush and digital slush. I guess they have to sell cars somehow.

DISCUSSION (24)

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 18:27

3.6 liter V12 , 530hp, 300 lb.ft torque, 12k redline, oooo boi.

HammerheadFistpunch > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 18:29

do you know how much I agree with you? so much. The Ferrari’s of old are dead and gone my friend...but...there is light at the end of the tunnel in the form of the limit volume run law. Eagle, singer, icon...these are the cars you are talking about and they cost what they ought. That being said i would give up all my Ferrari AND supercar hate if they made a tiny, totally impractical, not particularly amazing...AMAZING tiny v12 roadster with lots of real exposed metal and big comfy seats. could you even imagine?!

Grindintosecond > HammerheadFistpunch
02/09/2016 at 18:49

Yup. the noise of this would sell it out.

Grindintosecond > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
02/09/2016 at 18:51

Thinnk of it like this. 3x the Honda VFR1200 engine. Would mkae it a v-12, 3.6 liter, 510hp@10k, 350# torque @8700, and with variable cams all over the place now, that torque would be much fatter than the number says, in fact looking at the vfr dyno sheet, this enging would have 300 of it at 6500. Having all that rpm would out mechanical advantage quite a few cars with more power.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) is dead, long live Bman76 M. Arch > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 18:52

If Ariel can build that 500 HP 3.0L (hyabusa based) Hartley V8, then a small V-12 should be doable.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 18:54

Grindintosecond > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) is dead, long live Bman76 M. Arch
02/09/2016 at 18:54

And sound like that crazy scream we miss

Grindintosecond > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
02/09/2016 at 18:59

yep. And bump it up another liter and spin it twice as fast.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 19:08

You know, GM actually has a turbo V12 with four valves per cylinder about 50 years ago.

Bytemite > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 19:13

I agree, enjoyment is about the rev-happy goodness feeling in your pants, not about the numbers on the dyno.

V12's are just so gas guzzly though, I’ll take a tiny, <2.0 L Inline-6.

Grindintosecond > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
02/09/2016 at 19:19

but....how big and slow revving it was...

Grindintosecond > Bytemite
02/09/2016 at 19:19

not any more gas guzzling than their 4+ liter v8. Besides, youre worried about gas mileage in a ferrari?

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 19:20

Just 71 cubic inches (per cylinder) but it was a two stroke!

Bytemite > Grindintosecond
02/09/2016 at 21:18

That is true...

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
02/09/2016 at 22:42

is that rpm in vermont?

dat 914

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Grindintosecond
02/10/2016 at 04:33

This.

Give me a Caterham-like lightweight tubular chassis car (but with more Italian curvature) and a 2.0l V12 that will rev to 10-12k rpm.

People would go nuts (by people I mean Jalopnik and not typical Ferrari buyers).

Grindintosecond > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
02/10/2016 at 10:36

Don’t need the 2 liter to rev 10-12k. A 3.5 will do it easily and reliably today , That’s my whole point of this.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Grindintosecond
02/10/2016 at 10:56

It was more the novelty of having a really small V12 engine. With such a high redline you'd probably still get ~300bhp out of it, which would be more than plenty to make such a lightweight car an absolute monster.

AntiSpeed > Bytemite
02/10/2016 at 11:12

That’s exactly why F1 should return to V12's. If you can make a V12 fuel efficient, you can make anything fuel efficient!

...that’s how engineering works, right...?

Grindintosecond > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
02/10/2016 at 12:30

Washington State FSAE built a 500cc v-8 out of a pair of 250 i4 bike motors. Imagine if someone paid them to build a 1 liter v-16....the noise.

Bytemite > AntiSpeed
02/10/2016 at 12:49

Yeah! Just like how Americans wanted to keep their V8s so much they went with deactivating half the cylinders whenever possible. Still got single digit MPG in city.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Grindintosecond
02/10/2016 at 20:17

I think the issue is Ferrari have gotten themselves into a corner. It has to be the most powerful, fastest, bestest while coddling the driver or nothing. I would say most buy them, to flaunt how much money they dropped than pure driving enjoyment.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Grindintosecond
02/11/2016 at 04:59

Bring back BRM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDC…

Grindintosecond > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
02/11/2016 at 12:19

Probably right. They’ve always been status AND performance, but now pampered performance as status instead. They should fix their problem because they would sell more. How much money do they lose to the more performance oriented McLaren I wonder...